reenactment hide-shaped shield

[John Olinger]

Perhaps the holes were burned through with a tool akin to an awl with a red hot tip.
John

[Michael Doughty]

I've never really thought about how you would sew a rawhide rim on without a modern drill. Could anyone enlighten me?

For most shield making, a power drill in entirely optional. At "Period Shows" where power is not available, I use these:



http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx ... 06&p=32206

Michael Doughty
Aldùlfr the Shieldmaker
Saxon Shield

[Terry Sebolt]

Try a bow drill. Very fast and effective. It's easier, in my opinion, to make holes than to make fire.

As far as tacks being authentic, or not. I can't say for sure with other edgings, but I do know that some Germanic and later Saxon shields used tacks with metal edged rims. And tacks certainly existed and were used on leather in other instances (chamfrons, for instance). I don't know that one could prove either way on a damaged shield missing both nails and thread or cordage. I haven't really looked into it that deeply. Interesting thoughts, though. Wish I had more time and money for research.

[Alex Hovorka]

Does any edging really even have to be attached. If you really soaked the rawhide and stretched a long length of it around the whole edge of the shield, when it dried wouldn't it shrink enough to pretty much not budge. That of coarse wouldn't make sense with something like a hide shaped shield. Has anyone tried it?

[Dru Durman]

The Deal Grave Shield had bronze edging which seems to have just been folded round the rim and clamped at certain points. These clamps were rivetted through the shield board just inside the edging. Not sure how well such a system would work for leather/rawhide edging though...

[Tim Edwards]

Take another look at this shield edging...

viewtopic.php?p=247#p247

[Alex Hovorka]

Good point

[Dru Durman]

So definite evidence for stitched rawhide. Sweet, I'm on it.... though I HATE stitching rawhide... I've found the best way to fit a shield rim is to form a 'tyre' of rawhide formed by several lengths stitched together. But rawhide is not fun to stitch when wet...

[Terry Sebolt]

Oh, there is ample evidence for stitched rims. Multiple finds. The question is, were other materials/techniques also used?

Like Dru, I've considered making a 'tire' out of leather or rawhide (sewn end to end) and forcing it on wet, then letting it contract. I don't know of any finds like this, but then again, how much is lost. There must have been millions of shields produced, yet we only have a tiny fraction of them, mostly incomplete. The tire method should work fine on round, oval and even square shields, if measurements are done properly. Though a hide shaped shield would be impossible to edge this way.

I'll admit that I've used tacks though rawhide on a shield. But it was a round shield, done many years ago, and was not meant for a Celtic impression. I was using metal rimmed, later period shields as a basis. Though I have used it for an Iron Age Germanic impression. Later IA Germans also used tacked metal rims. Also, iron bosses were often found tacked to shields through facings, and this is the only reason that we know of many of the leather/rawhide/linen shield facings. Contact with metal seems to help preserve and protect some organics. The rest just disintegrated over time. Again, most of these finds are late IA/Dark ages finds.

I'm now starting to wonder if a 'bag' method was ever used. Stitch two layers and maybe a casing on the outside of a shield. I know of no finds like this. I'm just thinking out loud, trying to think of other ways that it might have been done. This method would be easier to stitch, not requiring holes through the wood, and could be replaced, if necessary. Again, this is purely speculation. Just trying to think how I would do it if my life actually depended on my shield, and if I were not worried about history, just survival.

Also, my bet is that most shields were not faced or possibly even edged, even though it makes a better shield. The question for us is, are we all 'rich warrior elite', and how much guesswork are we willing to accept with our own kit, knowing that most common pieces never survived.

Redg

[Tim Edwards]

Re-enactors obviously favour nails because it is quick and easy for them. However, stitching edging doesn't take all that much time in relative terms, compared to say, mining iron ore, hammering out billets, or forging nails...

Anyway 21st century logic aside, I have only ever seen nails occurring on metal edging, not leather/hide. There are dozens of Roman shield boards still surviving, none I know of have nailed leather/hide edging, though many are sewn.

I would like to know more about the Clounara shield. Is it faced with leather or rawhide? Does the edge stitching penetrate the board or just the facing?

We also have the Hjortspring shield/s to consider, were these just plain wood?

[Alex Hovorka]

Hjortspring shields were very simple. The majority were made out of single or two pieces of wood and the articles I've read suggest that some were not faced. Considering the small boss with no metal parts and being made out of a single board I would assume at least a few were without facing.

I saw a very interesting viking age reenactment video testing the difference between a faced and non faced shield against a dane axe. The difference was tremendous in how much the non faced shield splintered and how resilient the faced shield was.

[Dru Durman]

Like Tim, I've wondered whether the Clounara Shield is tanned or rawhide leather, but I have a nasty feeling it'd be very difficult to tell after all this time, can anyone enlighten us? Please?

[Will Marshall-Hall]

Hi Tim,

Thanks for posting that photo of the miniature shields. Personally, I don't think are votive offerings, I think they were a shield makers/tradesman's proofs or miniatures. So that he didn't have to cart fully made shields around, he could lay out these miniatures and allow the warriors to choose which particular style they preferred and then he would make the shield to order. Its a nice display of what British shields were around. Its nice to see a couple of small ovals. But I'm intrigued by the differences in width and height of the same style of shield.

Also, they give great art ideas based on the la tene style V etchings on them. However, in the British museum, see my post and photos in another thread, they have a tantalizing display showing a full sized version of one of these based on the grave finds and it clearly has various small bronze fittings strewn over its surface and also suggests a metal rim. This is the only factual artefact that points to Caesar's observation that the warriors had projecting metal designs and 'animals' I forget his exact words. Anyway, I'd like to try and make a version that has some of the same fittings riveted on to see whether there was a practical function. Perhaps its wrong to assume that they were there to stop the shield wood splitting in long lengths?

Anyway, thats my two cents

Hope it helps

Will

[Michael Doughty]

A rawhide edge will shrink and stay in place without stitching until...

...the edging is cut at any point. Then the rawhide will simply fall off and will do nothing to hold the rest of the shield together. Stitch your edging on!!!


As for tacks vs, stitching, I'm thinking a stitched-on edge would be more easily "Field Maintained", requiring only a length of linen thread and a needle, rather than ~200 tacks to be carried around in a pocket.

Michael Doughty
Aldùlfr the Shieldmaker
Saxon Shield

[Will Marshall-Hall]

Why isn't anyone considering using rawhide glue and gluing a dry sheet of rawhide in place? Then stitching it in place around the edges and around the central hand hole?

[Siani O.]

As for the 'tube' rim method, I have used this for an SCA shield...a 30" round. The first one was dried too quickly and was brittle and broke apart. The second one was dried very slowly, tightened up beautifully, and was near indestructible. I still have it. The shield it was on died horribly but the rim survives.

Siani

[Dru Durman]

I've considered the sheet of dry rawhide, but assumed it wasn't ideal because your shield would go funny in rain, then contract again, but then I guess any rawhide would likely go 'funny' in rain even if previously soaked and dried. Also I suppose there's the point that a dry sheet is probably not perfectly flat, while shrink drying a sheet on should mean that the stretching forces it to take the shield's shape... Just theories. Anyone more experienced with leather care to jump in for me here?

[Will Marshall-Hall]

Hi Dru,

I've used dry sheets on my Roman Scutums before now and once they are glued and stitched into place, I usually paint them with iron oxide paints and finally beeswax the whole area including the stitching. This preserves the stitching and waterproofs the whole shield so it won't go 'funny' in the rain :o)

Smart people them Ancient Brits. :o)

[Jeff Scharp]

Why isn't anyone considering using rawhide glue and gluing a dry sheet of rawhide in place? Then stitching it in place around the edges and around the central hand hole?

The rawhide I get does not come flat, but I could work on that. Then the little bit of moisture while gluing it might might warp it. Since you have had success this way, and it seems pretty simple, it might be the way to go.

The other thing I wonder about when looking at the rim of the Mill Hill Deal shield is that the tube rims are small in diameter, and would be too small to clasp the edge if it's composed of wood planks sandwiched between leather/rawhide/cloth. It makes me think the tubing is there to clasp the edge of the edging that extends past the wood planks. Could the tubing be meant to conceal the stitching at the edge of the shield? If the facing were leather the tubes would flex; however, if rawhide it would stay pretty stiff. Just thinking out loud.....

[Tim Edwards]

Peter Faulkner makes coracles from raw hide. He coats them with lanolin, which works very well.

If it didn't work he'd have sunk by now...

[Dru Durman]

Peter Faulkner makes coracles from raw hide. He coats them with lanolin, which works very well.

If it didn't work he'd have sunk by now...

Lol! Guess that's as good a test as any!

As to the Deal Grave shield Jeff, as I've pointed out, the whole shield board is extremely thin. The tube edging is held in place by clamps riveted through the board, or possibly through the edging I suppose... I seem to remember the clamps going through something like 4mm of organic material, the nails in the middle through more like 7mm. Even the centre seems a little thin for wood sandwiched between hide. How about purely a wooden shield thinning at the edges and edged with bronze? Maybe no covering in this case?

[Will Marshall-Hall]

What is the average shield thickness of Iron Age shields? Has anyone got a general ball park figure based on excavated metal rims?

I'm wondering about practicality from the warriors perspective. Obviously there is a grey area based on warriors personal preference, but I wonder if we are looking at shields from the wrong point if view? We make a nice shield and hang on to it for a few years when we are happy with it right?

Man of us also don't for the most part have the IA mental outlook which suggests that the warriors were not especially frightened by dying. So...I'm like Jeff here, just thinking out loud..... if I'm a professional warrior, train every day, in prime physical fitness, from my own opinion, I'm not going to make a 1/2 inch thick plywood shield, covered in felt or leather cause that would be heavy. Heavy means I will have slower reflexes and more energy drag.

I'd make a shield like this if I wanted to hide behind a front door to and not get hurt.

But maybe all professional warriors vied with each other over shield thickness...hence the Deal Grave shield is so thin... Maybe warriors had a pet piss take joking over how scared their mates were because they had thick shields????? A thin shield is light, quick to use in a variety of different ways both offensively and defensively, will take glancing blows and deflections and of course its only designed for one fight.

If I survive the fight, I take the metalwork off, make a new shield.

So a thin shield, rawhide covered or even just linen covered front and back may be a more accurate way to go.......

I stand now...awaiting the first stone :o)

[Dru Durman]

Stones should be alright Will, unless you're shield's REALLY thin! I'd worry more about the spears...

[Terry Sebolt]

Heh. Obviously, you've never been pounded by a good slinger. Thin shield (or even middle weight) wouldn't stand a chance against a larger stone or a lead bullet. Better stick fighting with those rich guys with swords and stay away from shepherd boys.

Redg

[Dru Durman]

Yeah, thought about that after posting... lol!