THE SCYTHIAN - SCOTTISH – HUNGARIAN RELATIONSHIP

[Istvan Vallus]

Very interrested

http://www.kincseslada.hu/magyarsag/con ... rticle.570

[Becky Watkins Tien]

Wow... Way too much mumbo-jumbo in there to take any of it seriously. Which is too bad, because I've recently read about the Sarmatian link to Arthur elsewhere.

The Magyars weren't in the Carpathian Basin until well after the Celts had swept through there. Like nearly a thousand years later. And the supposed links to Egypt just baffle me and make me think of the effort to link Egyptian mystery cults with Masonic Scottish Rites. Any article that tries to mash together Celts, lost tribes of Israel, Egyptians, Trojans, and Huns should be viewed with a great deal of suspicion. Like this part: "Albactanus, King of Scotland, was killed by the Huns, in a battle, 25 years after the arrival of the Trojans, according to one tradition, around 1070 B.C." That's just all wrong. All of it. And when I looked up Albactanus online, I kept getting sites with that exact same sentence over and over. Creepy. That and a reference to Geoffery of Monmouth, who mentioned Albactanus and the arrival of these wandering Trojans. Also from the article: "Considering that today’s historians date the origins of British history to the arrival in the West of the Trojan refugees or of the ten lost Israeli tribes, their history begins with William the Conqueror in 1066." What, what, what?

It might make for an interesting fantasy movie, but it's not history.

[Bob Roeder]

Wow... Way too much mumbo-jumbo in there to take any of it seriously. Which is too bad, because I've recently read about the Sarmatian link to Arthur elsewhere............................ Also from the article: "Considering that today’s historians date the origins of British history to the arrival in the West of the Trojan refugees or of the ten lost Israeli tribes, their history begins with William the Conqueror in 1066." What, what, what?

It might make for an interesting fantasy movie, but it's not history.

At the risk of promoting similar nonsense - If you want a good laugh checkout the following website:

http://kingarthurbanner.com/index.html

It really is quite funny though disturbing there are people who believe this stuff, but then it must be true if someone took the time to post it on the Internet


Sorry if this deviates from the original intention of this forum.

[Istvan Vallus]

The Magyars weren't in the Carpathian Basin until well after the Celts had swept through there. Like nearly a thousand years later.

Only our language kb 3000 year ones. The English language compared to the changes of a language. We can read texts from 1200 without a trouble and to understand.So "advanced scholars" write from the Scythian ones, from Huns, from Magyars in the west who from the language built impeccably mathematically at which the 2 million vocabularies are only the "jó napot" / good morning/ sentence it was known. Very good this website and I write because of this punctually here. I share those writings to which ones you would not obtain some other way.

[Becky Watkins Tien]

I appreciate that you wanted to share something we would not otherwise see, but this article is too full of inaccuracies to rely on any parts which might be real. As with the William the Conqueror mistake, any author who cannot tell the difference between AD and BC is a VERY BAD historian. And the inclusion of Egyptians, lost tribes of Israel, and Trojans in Britain are huge warning signs of a person who believes the fantasies of earlier people who wanted their ancestors to be more prestigious or exotic than they actually were.

If you were to post an article which had the same linguistic evidence with a totally different thesis, then that could be useful.

[Istvan Vallus]

thank you for the moderate attitude. I do not think that all of the words of the article are true. Since Red Block understands an end the world opened up for us. A couple of years and cannot be kept the Scythian one,daha, Hun western theory and the current history books onto cooking only they will be good.

a little Celtic-Hungarian language lesson:

(irish word- SORCHA > SCORAIOCHT = szorakozas /amusement
breton MEZ =MEZ /honey
breton PLUTA=Palota/heros's residence
Bouda=Buda/victorious
Medos=Mezes/mellifluous wine?
chell=csel/deceit
atoin/zátony/shallow


continuation follows

[Istvan Vallus]

" The Brief History of the Carpathian Basin Ethnogenesis "


http://xoomer.virgilio.it/bellelettere/etnogenezis.htm

English language: click (angolul)

[Becky Watkins Tien]

My Norton antivirus software found 11 computer dangers on that site. Sorry, but there's no way I'm looking at it.

"Threats found: 11
Here is a sample:

Threat Name: Downloader
Location: http://xoomer.virgilio.it/noticiaterra1 ... _xaja1.com

Threat Name: Downloader
Location: http://xoomer.virgilio.it/noticiaterra1 ... v71u6h.com

Threat Name: Trojan.FakeAV
Location: http://xoomer.virgilio.it/irbray/Intern ... rusPro.exe

Threat Name: W32.Virut!html
Location: http://xoomer.virgilio.it/webcamornica/index.html

Threat Name: W32.Virut!html
Location: http://xoomer.virgilio.it/webcamornica/

Threat Name: Adware.InetAntiSpy
Location: http://xoomer.virgilio.it/fitelqa/Inter ... rusPro.exe

Threat Name: Adware.InetAntiSpy
Location: http://xoomer.virgilio.it/trfokme/Inter ... rusPro.exe

Threat Name: Trojan.Maliframe!html
Location: http://xoomer.virgilio.it/decoupageanna ... natale.htm

Threat Name: Trojan Horse
Location: http://xoomer.virgilio.it/irbray/file.exe

Threat Name: Downloader
Location: http://xoomer.virgilio.it/noticiaterra1 ... _mmvlc.com"

[Dru Durman]

Thanks for warning us Becky!

As to the language Istvan, what you have there doesn't neccessarily mean that Hungarian is a Celtic language, but simply a Proto-Indo European language. I realised long ago that everything comes down to PIE in the end...

Look at German... 'reiks' meaning king, obviously linked to 'rix' in Celtic, 'rex' in Latin.
'frei' meaning free, early German: frijo-s, from PIE prijo-s, linked to the Welsh 'rhydd'.
Check out this word in several different languages, meaning 'booty, plunder or fruits of victory': German- beute, Gaulish- bodi, French- butin, Norse- byte, Welsh- budd.

There are many other examples, but the point I'm making is that links between languages only shows a Proto-Indo European origin, which can stretch back to Sanskrit. Since the spread of mankind was from Africa, and therefore the middle east, I suppose there is a way that someone could misunderstand and come up with the lost tribes of Isreal story, but a misunderstanding is all it is...

[Istvan Vallus]

I'm so sorry the virus threat. Mea culpa.....maxima mea culpa

I found a very good website for them who the development of the writing interests.

http://www.michelangelo.cn/

Alliance of Hungarians - Purpose and goalsThe Alliance of Hungarians is a grassroots movement that was established in November 2008, inspired by the need for a paradigm shift and determination to make it happen. There is no political party, no economic interest group, no religious organization behind the Alliance, it is only us, ordinary Hungarians. Our vision is a country where compassion, integrity and cooperation are the main values, where the future is promising, where there are moral standards and where the interests of the community rise above the interests of a selected few.

When did all this start?

At a three-day event in August of 2008 in Kunszentmiklós, Hungary about 70,000 Hungarians affirmed that they are united in their interest in the long-term maintenance of their language, traditions and culture as ultimate ends. The event was an affirmation of the need and willingness for purposeful, determined work to make this happen. This is how the Alliance of Hungarians came about. Its initial membership of 232 civil society organizations has rapidly grown and since then doubled, as many other organizations and private citizens decide to join.

Why do we need the Alliance?

All human beings have a basic right to live a full human life, to attain high intellectual, physical and spiritual standards. During the Communist era and even in the last 20 years since then, these rights have been infringed upon in Hungary. The problems are deep, pervasive and structural, and as such cannot be resolved by simply addressing symptoms while leaving root causes intact. There is a need for a fundamental paradigm shift on many levels.

Our envoys move around the country and organize small community meetings. In over 1000 villages and towns we started communities based on the same guidelines. We established a training center where we prepare associates to help communities come to terms with the transformation needed in the interest of our sustainable future, rooted in our millennia old traditions.

Searching for partners

What is happening to us is not a country-specific problem. Due to selfish and short sighted human behaviour, the ability of the biosphere to sustain civilization have been severely eroded. For the same reason, the world economy has been brought to the brink of total collapse. Despite promises enshrined in declarations such as the Millennium Development Goals, few pay real attention to the ever growing numbers and needs of the poor. We live in a world corrupted by lies. The human race as a whole faces perhaps the greatest challenge in its whole history. In order to tackle our common problems, we believe the Alliance can contribute the most if its works in partnership with organizations that follow the same principles as the Alliance of Hungarians.

Our place among nations

We believe that all nations have something very specific to contribute to the global development of mankind. However, in order to provide the best, a country must be able to keep its own house in order. Rather than forcing on countries the straightjacket of globalization, we believe strength and resilience can be found in maintaining diversity. We believe we need to address our issues based on the principle of subsidiarity: take responsibility for matters we can, based on our own strength, intelligence and traditions without expecting outside bureaucracies to solve them for us.

Therefore we strive for the recognition and appreciation of diversity, the nurturing of existing cultural differences. We want to build connectivity, create cooperation and establish greater understanding among nations. We want a community of European nations with equal rights who are willing to learn from history and are willing and able to cooperate with one another.

„A nation that stands united will not fall” – János Arany (19th Century Hungarian poet)

Members of the Alliance of Hungarians have organized hundreds of events during the past six months at different locations around the country. The most important event of 2009, the National Convention of Hungarians that took place in Kunszentmiklós-Bösztörpuszta between August 21–23, was attended by thousands of volunteers and performers as well as more than 180,000 visitors.


root: Dr. Papp lajos

[Istvan Vallus]

Hello

"The Magyars weren't in the Carpathian Basin until well after the Celts had swept through there. Like nearly a thousand years later. And the supposed links to Egypt just baffle me and make me think of the effort to link Egyptian mystery cults with Masonic Scottish Rites. Any article that tries to mash together Celts, lost tribes of Israel, Egyptians, Trojans, and Huns should be viewed with a great deal of suspicion." /Becky Watkins Tien/



"In the U.S. journal Science geneticists published that: The ancestors of the Hungarians were among the first European immigrants at the Paleolithic before thousands of years. The Hungarians are most clearly genetically distinct population in Europe. The primeval Eu19, Eu18, Eu7 GenMarker is in Hungary on the highest percentage (84,3%) available of Europe. The US Anthropologist Grover Krantz wrote "that Hungarian (Magyar) is actually the oldest in-place language in all of Europe." "/Science 10.11.2000/

[Dru Durman]

I think your point about the language raises two points Istvan:

a) What are you classing as Hungarian, because to my knowledge (and I admit that this area of Europe is not my strong point!) the name comes from the Huns, who swept into this area and inhabited it on the edge of the Roman Empire, so the name 'Hungary' means (roughly) 'Land of the Huns' or 'Plain of the Huns' or something to that effect. With the number of migrations in that area towards the end of the Roman Empire (Huns, Vandals, Goths...) I think it's difficult to know exactly when 'Hungary' as a nation really started, but surely it would have to be early medieval? As to the native people who lasted out through the various overlords, that's a different matter. There's a skeleton found in Cheddar Gorge in Somerset, England (dated from just after the last Ice Age), who's mitochondrial DNA is the same as the majority of the modern population of the nearest village, and that's with Celts, Romans, Saxons, Vikings and Normans having dominated the region since his death!

b) I'm not arguing against the Hungarian language being ancient, I'm just pointing out that it doesn't necessarily mean 'Celtic'. Before the emergence of different languages (Gaulish, German, Iberian, Latin, Greek etc) was what is known as Proto Indo-European, linked in many ways to ancient Eastern (Indian) languages, such s Sanskrit, so links can be made from Celtic words to Sanskrit, because they all emerged from a basic language. Hungarian would have emerged from the same base, leading to similar roots, without necessarily coming from Celtic.

Those are my only points. I don't have a problem with Hungarians claiming Celtic roots if they had them, I'm just not entirely sure about said roots, and I don't think language is the firmest base to ground 'evidence' on. Having said that, the Celts did dominate Europe from Ireland to Turkey in their day, with Dacia having a Celtic element alongside the Germanic an Thracian...

[Istvan Vallus]

Hello Dru!

You have truth with the Celtic ones relatedly. My ancestors derive from the tribe of Gaulish Treveri - my surname derives from them - three years ago I research the Celtic, ones as Hungarian. From Luxembourg my ancestors arrive from their fathers' land onto Hungary between 1230-1260.

This is a secondary thing now.

The Celtic culture and the Hungarian culture have a common source.

It Science in an article other can be found.

Semino and his colleagues professors dealing with genetics, ancestor genetics from United States of America, Italy, Poland, from Ukraine, from Croatia, Romania and I could enumerate it. From Hungary was not from among the scholars nobody. So 17 scholars asked the question:

[Istvan Vallus]

Which the folk living today in Europe, Who that carries the ancestor gene largest in himself?

The result is shocking!

It Y chromosome this scholar group established that the today is a living person in Hungary based on research, people nation in 95 % the European ancestor gene is on sign.

I do not write about language but I write from genetics. The Hungarians' 35-40 thousand years ago was lived into Europe!!!!!!


root:


The Genetic Legacy of Paleolithic Homo sapiens sapiens in Extant Europeans: A Y Chromosome

[Istvan Vallus]

Excuse me. I have to refine the time.


BC. 35-40.000 years!!!!!

[Dru Durman]

As I said, that area is not my speciality, but it does sound like you've done your research! My only real argument was the use of language links to 'prove' the link, now you've brought up genetics I have no more argument. It's good to see the roots going back, I freely admit I have a heart and soul that calls me to the ancient Celts, and I may live in Britain, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that with my height and dark hair I've not got much 'Celt' in me, but since I can't afford a DNA test to find out...

[Istvan Vallus]

I win the jackpot lottery on this weekend and I fund the genetic research for you.

Referring to the article of the science, the 17 scholars established something else. On the space of the gene examination " silver medallist Poland 60 %, the " bronze medallist Croatia 50 %.

[Becky Watkins Tien]

http://www.pestiside.hu/20070827/hungarians-invented-the-alphabet-according-to-this-italian/

To Michelangleo Naddeo's comments I say:
"Amazon Shaman Priestess." Really?
"... the Conical Headdress of the Palaeolitic Europeans is still a cultural market that can be used to trace the migrations of the greatest, democratic, egalitarian, peace loving civilization ever appeared on earth." Really?
"The arrival of the nomadic war faring pastoralist Celts in Europe at the beginning of the third millennium B.C. (first urn field in Europe, in the Balkan area: 2700 B.C., Hencken) provoked large migrations from the Carpathian Basin and the Balkans to surrounding and far away lands: ... to Anatolia: the Galathians [sic], the most recent migrants, who brought the Mother Goddess (Cybele), in present day Turkey" No, the Phrygians had Cybele before the Galatians (who were Celts, not displaced by them) ever entered Anatolia.

The above linked article and the other commenters reflect my opinion about his research.

Istvan, I'm not sure what your own personal hypothesis is anymore. What exactly is it you're trying to prove? That people in Europe have common European ancestry that stretches back to the paleolithic? OK, I'll go with that. But I'm not sure what that has to do with the cultural claims of your linked articles.

[Livio Asta]

[quote"... the Conical Headdress of the Palaeolitic Europeans is still a cultural market that can be used to trace the migrations of the greatest, democratic, egalitarian, peace loving civilization ever appeared on earth."[/quote]

This statement really sounds like an utopic research of a "golden age"; i read similar statements about neolithic age.

[Istvan Vallus]

Becky. The Hungarians do not believe in the Finnish-Ugrian theory for a long time already. We believe it hun-avaryan-magyar continuity.

It osetian a legend exists. Batraz knight leaded his folk to victory pulling a sword out from the sea.Is the legend not familiar? From Artur cycle of legends there is word. One the problem! Batraz' legend is previous with more hundred years. According to the newest genetic researches it it happens with today that the Hungarian's genetic relatives live in Kazakhstan MaDJAR tribe, and Uighur and Osetian folk. The osetian and Uighur fighters went into a fight with the dragon flag. That fact may not be so surprising that Marcus Aurelius Vs. Sarmata tribe for his battle place his today's research in Hungary territory.

http://www.illusionsgallery.com/Arthur-avalon-L.jpg

The Hungarian royal crown shows on the painting below. The painter saw the Hungarian crown only in his dreams.Yet a little one " chance " falling into one. THOR who can be found in England is a funereal mountain. In Hungary the funeral follower eating and drink meeting on a collective noun we calling TOR.

[Becky Watkins Tien]

So Edward Burne-Jones starts his masterpiece, "The Last Sleep of Arthur in Avalon," in 1881 and includes the famous 1000 CE Holy Crown of Hungary in the scene, and that somehow means that Arthur was Hungarian? I don't know who told you that he had only seen the crown in his dreams, but it is highly unlikely that an educated man like Burne-Jones was not already familiar with the crown considering that it was pictured on Hungary's coat of arms, coins, engravings, etc. Since the coat of arms (with the crown) was on Hungary's flag during Burne-Jones's painting years, he would have to have been quite ignorant not to have known what the crown looked like.

Even if Burne-Jones had magically seen the crown in a dream, that would not be historical evidence. At all.

Can you not see how adding incorrect mystical fairytales makes all the rest of your evidence look incredibly suspicious?

The idea of Sarmatian cavalry working for Lucius Artorius Castus, bringing the story of Batraz with them, and then settling in Britain is fine with me, but that's all 2nd - 3rd century CE stuff.

I still don't understand what you're trying to prove. What does Arthur have to do with Pre-Roman Celts or the indigenous non-Celt populations of the British Isles? The original article you posted had some really bizarre ideas about the origins of Scots, but you have followed up with ideas about the origins of Hungarians, how Hungarians invented the alphabet, and now this thing about Arthur. What are you talking about?