unidentified torques

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unidentified torques

Postby Peter B on June 16th, 2014, 7:04 pm

Hello, does anybody recognize that torques?
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Peter B
 
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Re: unidentified torques

Postby Steven M. Peffley on June 17th, 2014, 2:40 pm

Hi Peter,

I have never seen that torc before. However, the helmet and cheek guards with engraved/embossed cranes are from Smarjeta, Slovenia.
Hope this helps.

Steven
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Re: unidentified torques

Postby Luka Borščak on June 17th, 2014, 2:52 pm

Steven, Jugoslavia doesn't exist anymore.
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Re: unidentified torques

Postby Steven M. Peffley on June 17th, 2014, 3:45 pm

Thanks, Luka. The citation was from "Celtic Art" by Ruth and Vincent Megaw, 1990.
Publishing being a slow and reactive business, does not take into account the shifting of political borders in a timely fashion. Also, I did not think to check either.
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Re: unidentified torques

Postby Luka Borščak on June 18th, 2014, 9:52 am

No problem, I know west doesn't really check these things often. ;) But it's been over 20 years since Slovenia and Croatia got out of Jugoslavia and some years after that Jugoslavia fell apart completely. :)
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Re: unidentified torques

Postby Livio Asta on June 18th, 2014, 1:17 pm

There are some similar silver torques with knots in north-eastern Italy too (not far from Slovenia).
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Re: unidentified torques

Postby Peter B on June 18th, 2014, 1:21 pm

Can you show some?
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Re: unidentified torques

Postby Livio Asta on June 18th, 2014, 1:52 pm

First, i have to correct myself: Italian and Slovenian findings i know are in bronze, not silver.

The ones in the draws are from Skocian (Slovenia), and i think they are now in the museum of Trieste (Italy). Ii do not have pictures of the Italian ones (mostly fragmentaries) but i post a map of their geographical distribution.

If you want i can PM you a couple of pages about this kind of torques, but they are written in Italian.

Livio
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aka: Kosios

Re: unidentified torques

Postby Steven M. Peffley on June 19th, 2014, 8:48 am

Hi Livio,

The detail of the knots is something I had never seen before - maybe a specific regional type?
Also, according to the copy of Pagan Celtic Britain, by Anne Ross, open in front of me as as I type, another pair of helmet cheek guards decorated with Cranes were found at Carniola in northern Italy. Maybe a tribal totem? Same general region in ancient times.

Steven
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Re: unidentified torques

Postby Livio Asta on June 19th, 2014, 10:20 am

Unless it is an homonimy, Carniola is not a town but an historical region now for the most part in Slovenia; only a very small part is now in Italy. Anyway, this does not change anything for ancient times because borders were obviously different: for instance, at the beginning of II b.C., the celtic tribe called Carni came from today's Slovenia and invaded Carnia (in eastern Italy, not to be confused with Carniola, even if the root is the same).
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Tribe: Insubres
Region: Northern Italy
Time period: III b.C.
aka: Kosios

Re: unidentified torques

Postby Steven M. Peffley on June 19th, 2014, 11:25 am

Is it possible that the Smarjeta helmet and the one listed as being from Carniola are actually the same artifact? After all, comparing a Google map of Smarjeta and the map in your attachments, it would seem that Smarjeta is due east of point 11 on your map of torc locations.
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Re: unidentified torques

Postby Peter B on June 19th, 2014, 11:45 am

Great job Livio. Thank You! The most important thing for me is that types of torc compatibility with rest of my equipment- most from Novo Mesto LT D1 - i mean age and area . You can send me PM :) thank You once again!
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aka: Teyrnon


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