Cu Chulainn movie

[Livio Asta]

It seems that a movie about Tain Bo Cuailnge is in developement:

http://breakthrufilms.co.uk/uk/films/hound/

The story does'nt seem very faithful to the "real" text, but...let's see what they will be able to do.

[Andrew Byrne]

I am both looking forward to this greatly, to see how it is done, and I am also dreading this with much...eh, dread...It could go (and most likely will) go horribly wrong!

[John Olinger]

Yes, remember, "Roar"... Sigh!
John

[Wenzel Ribbens]

Haha, historical movies are pretty dangerous for us historians :p No one wants to be with me when watching Troy, Alexander or something alike ;)

Yet, I love movies, and I can enjoy a totally incorrect movie (but will always comment it to make sure co-viewers do not take false truths as facts xD ) so I guess I'll like this one to ;)

[Dru Durman]

Off period, but I heard Mel Gibson's starting work on a viking film this year, with Leonardo Dicaprio...
After The Passion of the Christ and Apocalypto I'm a little hopeful, but I can't forget the travesty of Braveheart...

[John Olinger]

...or "The Patriot". both were entertaining but horrible history.
John

[Dru Durman]

Exactly...

[Alex Hovorka]

Apacolypto was pretty ridicules for the most part but still great to watch.

[Dru Durman]

Oh, yeah, ridiculous, but look at the detail they went into to try and bring the Mayans to life. To be fair, the only ridiculous bit was the far fetched story line, not the authenticity. And the language, wow! I hope they do this Vik film in Old Norse. I don't mind ridiculous storylines too much (if it's based on an epic saga or norse myth that's par for the course) I just want a gritty, realistic portrayal of the period and its peoples. Of course, if he's following a particular Norse Saga or tale then I hope he follows in accurately, but I'm beginning o take Gibson seriously these days. Beginning...

[Andrew Byrne]

by any chance is this film the film based on Brian boru? there was a film in the running about Brian Boru and the battle of Clontarf, but with Mark Mahon directing it, with Leonardo di Caprio as Boru and with Vinnie Jones as Ivor of Limerick.
I'm wondering have they decided to ok teh fil, but with Mel Gibson in charge instead of Mark Mahon?

Does anybody know more bout this new Gibson movie?

[Dru Durman]

Unfortunately at present I've only heard there's going to be one. I'd heard 'Viking' film, nothing about the Irish, but I'm looking forward to it even more if it's a good representation of Brian Boru.

[Andrew Byrne]

well, a Viking film would fit nicely into Brian boru. Half his army was Viking, as was half his enemies. It was a power struggle, not a native vs invader battle. The battle is recorded in the end of Njal's saga, so it would fit nicely into a Viking label. But who knows...we'll have to wait and see

[lisduggan]

Lads, lads, lads, ye are all forgetting Cuchulainn, An Tain Bo Cuailgne and everyone in that story are mythological. There isn't an ounce of history in it.

Unless of course you are one the Ulaid people of the early Middle Ages who uses The Tain to mark out their territory against the O'Neill push north. Now I doubt any of you are 1200 years old so please stop getting a bee in your collective crested helmets and just chill out. Cuchulainn is myth. It serves a cultural need in ireland to deal with folk memories of war, conflict, powerplay and the desire for a Celtic superhero to defend both people and place from both foreign invaders and domestic marauders. It is traditionally set in the Iron Age but most of its details are either constructs of 8th Century scribes versed in Greek mythology or the politics of the local king who supported the monastery they wrote the story down in.

It's myth. Not history.

So what if the film strays from "fact" - what's important is the theme it portrays and the fact that it might get people debating Irish myth and memory. We've had enough of Greek, Roman, Nordic and British mythology on screen. Let's give this a collective shout of support for trying to open a debate and maybe make Morrigan a ride and demon in one fell swoop!

[B Stark]

Interesting first post lisduggan.

[John Olinger]

[quote="lisduggan] It is traditionally set in the Iron Age... [/quote]


I thought Cuchulainn was Bronze Age.

John

[Dru Durman]

I'm not worried about historical authenticity, I'm hoping they actually follow the storyline. It pisses me off to see film makers make a film of a myth, but decide the actual myth isn't good enough, so they leave bits out and add their own stuff in...

But then I guess legends have always grown in the telling as each storyteller puts his own stamp on the tale...

[lisduggan]

Re: Cuchulainn being set in the Bronze or Iron Age - it has elements of a distant past in its various tellings. The episode with Etercomal and Cuchulainn splitting him in half and Fergus splicing wythe spancil hoops through the dead man's ankles before dragging both halves of the severed body back to camp during the Tain has been archaeologically proven. One of the bog bodies found in Ireland and carbon dated to the Iron Age has the same spancil hoops described in the myth slung through one of his arms!!! Amazing. The Tain also talks about a great road from East to West in Iron Age Ireland. Also discovered in the Bog of Allen. So something definitely happened around 2000 years ago that drove Ulster into the ground. So like all myths there is no smoke without fire. So Bronze or Iron Age? Iron wins but since there is not so much material found in Iron Age Ireland the Bronze Age is a more fitting setting visually as we have tons to refer to in artifacts here but the culture is definitely influenced by Continental Celtic shennanigans.

[John Olinger]

...or "The Patriot". both were entertaining but horrible history.
John

(off Topic)
A man with a past he want's to forget. He lives in an occupied land governed by English tyrants. He possesses nothing more than a desire to, peacefully, raise his family and his crops. But the brutal murder of a loved one forces him into a war of vengence... I don't remember... was that "The Patriot" or "Braveheart"?

[Andrew Byrne]

Re: Cuchulainn being set in the Bronze or Iron Age - it has elements of a distant past in its various tellings. The episode with Etercomal and Cuchulainn splitting him in half and Fergus splicing wythe spancil hoops through the dead man's ankles before dragging both halves of the severed body back to camp during the Tain has been archaeologically proven. One of the bog bodies found in Ireland and carbon dated to the Iron Age has the same spancil hoops described in the myth slung through one of his arms!!! Amazing. The Tain also talks about a great road from East to West in Iron Age Ireland. Also discovered in the Bog of Allen. So something definitely happened around 2000 years ago that drove Ulster into the ground. So like all myths there is no smoke without fire. So Bronze or Iron Age? Iron wins but since there is not so much material found in Iron Age Ireland the Bronze Age is a more fitting setting visually as we have tons to refer to in artifacts here but the culture is definitely influenced by Continental Celtic shennanigans.

The material culture, it is argued, does not reflect either an Iron or a Bronze Age culture, but that of the early medieval period. Alot of early scholars did compare alot of the material culture to that of the Bronze age, but without knowing then that the Bronze age was something different than just 'ancient'. (they did not quite have a distinct time frame as we do now).
There is unfortunately, a scarcity of archaeological evidence from the Iron Age, which does not help us with trying to identify the material culture as written and that of the archaeological evidence. To say it is Bronze Age is setting it too far back, I think.
The culture itself as presented in the Táin does seem to present us with a non-Christian society, and hence it is believed to be Iron Age (as argued by K. Jackson), but this is not taken at face value, as it cannot be certain from around when it dates from. It has been argued that it is set in the 1st-2nd century A.D., but written somewhere around the 7th-9th centuries, and earliest manuscript is c10-11th century.
It has also been proposed that the tale was merely made up in the christian period, and the content was inspired by classical writings of the continental Gauls, but that cannot be proven.
As it stands, alot of the culture and society can be/is equated with alot society of the continental celts as we know it (and maybe as they did), and it cannot be said for certain to what extent it stands that Ireland was indeed very like that, or it was a literary 'call-back' to that time.

As stated, it has been argued that alot of the material culture is reflective of the early medieval period, and not any earlier. This has mainly been done b a few scholars, such as Mallory who argued the sword described in the tale is best fitting to an early medieval sword, and not an iron or bronze age sword. Descriptions of spears can represent either an Iron age or a medieval weapon (the spear is a generic weapon in itself most often than not). The presence of helmets and most body armour are later additions, as they are loan-words from germanic and latin/cambro-latin. The need for a loan-word indicates that the technology is a new one (or so it is argued).
Alot of other materials cannot be alotted to any precise time period as they span a vast period.

To say which is correct, the material culture or the society itself? It cannot be stated for certain, and both may be full of anachronisms and additions here or there that may be trying to update or archaisise the text, when committed to writing.

either way, it is unsafe to say for certain when the saga dates from

(long-winded, and I hope it makes a bit of sense)

[Andrew Byrne]

I think that any ideas of dating should be ignored, and if they follow a faithful reading (or ammalgamation) of one or so versions of teh story (and or its side stories), I will be happy. And I think it would be nice to see how they handle or portray the fanciful exaggerated stuff